Dining across the divide: ‘I knew he was a Reform voter and I had this Nigel-Farage-angry-face image’
They disagreed on immigration, but could an IT professional and an engineer agree on the Israel-Palestine conflict?
Julian, 64, Hayling Island, Hampshire
Occupation Engineer
Voting record Conservative in 2019, “specifically on the Get Brexit Done ticket – I will never vote Conservative again.” Last time, Reform
Amuse bouche Julian is doing a beekeeping course. He plans to do that once he retires
Lawal, 40, Bournemouth
Occupation IT professional
Voting record Lawal came to the UK from Nigeria in 2022. Has voted Labour and Green in local elections. He describes himself as a liberal in conservative Nigerian society
Amuse bouche Lawal can memorise numbers: he has up to 100 phone numbers in his head
For starters
Julian Lawal is from Nigeria, and also a Muslim. I felt relaxed enough to be able to discuss stuff like Islam with him; I had a girlfriend of Pakistani extraction in London before I met my wife. We both had squid, then I had trout and Lawal had lamb.
Lawal I knew Julian was a Reform voter and I had this Nigel-Farage-angry-face image, but he was a really nice chap.
The big beef
Julian I think we need zero migration for the foreseeable future. We have far exceeded our capacity to cope. It’s been terrible for young people; employers have used it as an excuse to get cheap labour instead of training apprentices.
Lawal Right now, immigrants are the whipping boys and girls of the current discourse. We talked about how unfair it is to malign legal immigrants because of the sins of illegal ones – the small percentage that are bad eggs. For me, who has contributed, doesn’t receive any benefits, it irks me to hear that immigrants have come to contribute nothing.
Julian Yes, if you took every migrant out of the NHS, it would collapse overnight, but we found ourselves in that situation by making the NHS an unattractive place for British people to work. My daughter is a paramedic, went through university, has all the resulting student debt; it’s hard to get into, and once you’re in, the pay’s not all that. It’s also extremely reductive to say that because I think we need a stable population to redress the housing crisis and oblige employers to start offering apprenticeships, it means I don’t like foreigners or migrants and want to ship people here legally off somewhere.
Lawal We’ve been to hospital on a few occasions and 50% of the time we’ve been treated by a Nigerian doctor. The contribution by immigrants to the health sector is massive. In my sector – technology – too. In most African countries, India, south-east Asia, there is a very high value placed on education. So where the British populace lacks in higher educational qualifications, immigrants make up for it.
Sharing plate
Julian We talked about Palestine and were very much in agreement. What has been going on in the West Bank for years and the actions of the Israeli government and the settlers is not in any way acceptable.
Lawal I despise the Israeli government. Criticism of the Israeli government doesn’t mean you are an antisemite. Since I’ve been here, I have become really disillusioned with Labour. When the Gaza war happened, I really aligned with how the Greens viewed that state of affairs.
For afters
Julian I think Reform and Nigel Farage have the guts to do what’s required. Like leaving the European convention on human rights (ECHR), though we seem to be crawling towards that anyway. We may not need a Reform government: Labour is turning into one. It’s like a Private Eye cartoon, in which over five years Keir Starmer turns into Nigel Farage.
Lawal I’m definitely to the left of Julian, but he’s not as hard right as you’d expect of a Reform voter. I don’t have the time of day for Nigel Farage. He seems like a Trump wannabe – trying so hard to mimic Trump’s drive and rhetoric in the UK. It’s even worse if you’re not original.
Takeaways
Julian We were there for hours – the waitresses were looking at their watches. It was a joy to broaden my social connections. We exchanged numbers and I seriously would like to see Lawal again.
Lawal For me, it reinforced my thoughts about what I feel about humanity as a whole: that we are all more alike than we are made to think.
• Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
Julian and Lawal ate at The Ship Inn in Langstone. Want to meet someone from across the divide? Find out how to take part