Dining across the divide: ‘I think property is a right, not a business – he thinks differently because he’s a landlord’

They disagree on the private rented sector. Can they find common ground over a united Ireland?

Diarmuid, 25, London

Occupation Accountant

Voting record Sometimes Lib Dem tactically, but ideally always Green

Amuse bouche Doesn’t have a driving licence but does have a commercial boat licence: he grew up in rural Ireland, and used to work with boats

Richard, 42, London

Occupation TV and radio presenter; also runs a property business

Voting record Politically homeless, but in theory is a Labour voter. Has voted for the Women’s Equality party

Amuse bouche Trained in contemporary dance and once ran a dance organisation. He was very into performance art for a while, and did a piece about identity and his Spanish heritage, which involved dancing flamenco very badly

For starters

Diarmuid We got on really well, started chatting straight away. I could tell he was in a different tax bracket to me.

Richard He seemed mild and mellow, chilled. I thought he might have a jazzier profession. There’s nothing wrong with being an accountant. It’s just not something I would ever do.

Diarmuid I had fried mozzarella sticks and truffle tortellini.

Richard I had a parmigiana starter, and then pasta carbonara; an Aperol spritz and then a glass of pinot grigio; and affogato with hazelnut liqueur.

The big beef

Diarmuid I think property is a right, not a business, which is obviously very different to what Richard thinks, because he’s a landlord. I did see his point that some landlords are great, and he seems to be in that category, but I still don’t think it should be a career path. He described the difficulties of renting out property, but I thought it was a moot point. There’s a human on either side of the equation and one is making money off the other. I’d much rather be the human who has to spend very little to make profit than the human paying half their wages in rent. If it’s so hard, pick a different career.

Richard I feel landlords are running a business, providing a service, and we’re hugely maligned, particularly in the press. Most of us are good people who really care about our tenants. I’ve had babies born in my properties – tenants stay for 10 or more years. It’s a very responsible job and it’s become less enjoyable. Some of the recent regulation has been really over the top, and some of the taxation is scandalous.

Diarmuid I grew up through the crash in 2008, in Ireland. There are still massive ghost housing estates, where no one has moved in and no one ever will. They were built for tax breaks and they show what happens when the free market goes too far. Everyone’s looking for housing, and half a mile down the road there’s an estate with 40 houses on it no one can ever move into.

Richard I think, in the UK, there’s an element of people thinking it’s plain vulgar to profit from property, which is hard on those of us who wanted to run a business and decided to do property because we enjoy it. There are 4.7m households in the private rented sector in England. The Green party passed this motion about abolishing private landlords, but what would happen to those renters?

Sharing plate

Diarmuid We agreed selling off council houses was great – the problem was when that money wasn’t reinvested in housing. The stock went down and has never recovered. I’d love to own a house – I’d love everyone to own a house.

Richard We talked about right to buy, and I explained that since the policy was introduced in 1980, 1.9m homes have been sold in England. I thought that was good in principle, even though I would never have voted for Thatcher. I was quite supportive of the Blair government, which I guess carried on a lot of Thatcherite ideas.

For afters

Diarmuid I’m a strong republican. We talked about the occupied six counties, a united Ireland. We had a really good conversation, a lot better than you’d have with another Irish person, someone closer to the argument.

Richard He basically felt that Northern Ireland had been invaded by Protestants from the UK. I felt sympathetic, in the sense that you could put that history in the ambit of colonisation. I said it could be great if it could become one Ireland, but there would have to be some democratic measure to enable that to happen. Maybe we’re not that far away.

Takeaways

Diarmuid I thought he was lovely.

Richard He wasn’t spiky or aggressive – he was a reasonable chap.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

• Diarmuid and Richard ate at Rossella, London NW5

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