Dining across the divide: ‘He kept saying, “Bring them all in, borders are just a line in the sand.” I didn’t agree’

One thinks mirgrants take advantage of Britain being a generous country, the other thinks they need more safe routes. Can they find common ground in the rise of the Green party?

Abdal-Jabbar, 56, Manchester

Occupation Monitors offenders on electronic tags

Voting record So far Labour, now looking at options between Corbyn’s Your Party and the Greens

Amuse bouche Is an extra in film and TV productions. He recently played a paparazzo in the new Batman movie

Will, 28, Manchester

Occupation Works in operations and admin at Manchester University

Voting record Labour under Corbyn, and was a party member. Voted Green in 2024

Amuse bouche Volunteers at a heritage railway in Wales, a full-sized, preserved old slate railway, the first in the world. His dad is very train oriented

For starters

Abdal-Jabbar Lovely, presentable, polite chap. Very educated – he’s got a degree in history. I think he knew a bit more about contemporary politics than I did.

Will He seemed very well put-together, well-spoken. We chatted about interviews and jobs and things – he seemed like he’d been all round the shop doing all sorts of things.

Abdal-Jabbar He had impeccable table manners. I was eating the starter with my hands and he went in with a knife and fork. I went for the cod tempura, pasta, pineapple juice.

Will I had croquettes as a starter, and then a chorizo something or other.

The big beef

Abdal-Jabbar He kept saying, “Go for it, let’s bring them all in, borders are just a line in the sand.” I didn’t agree. There needs to be some curbing of the people who come on boats. If we let them all in, it’ll be nonstop; there’d be pandemonium in the end. While we have been a fantastic, generous country, people are taking advantage of it.

Will I think he was quite surprised by my stance – the only problem with illegal immigration is that it’s dangerous and people are drowning in the Channel. He has an issue with the illegality of it. My view is that there should be more safe routes to take the power away from people smugglers. My partner’s done volunteer work in refugee camps – incredibly unpleasant places to be for years on end. You can understand how people are driven to desperation.

Abdal-Jabbar I don’t think anyone knew just how bad it would get. I know Shabana Mahmood is ripping up the rulebook now and saying refugee status should be temporary. We will always need some immigration – doctors, nurses and carers. But how effective are they? You might be qualified as a doctor but are you qualified culturally to understand British people? I don’t think it’s racist to ask that.

Will It was fine for us to talk about the nuances of the immigration debate because there were so many issues we were not that far apart on. If I were sat across from a Reform voter, we wouldn’t have got five minutes in before one of us said something the other thought was morally wrong.

Sharing plate

Abdal-Jabbar We agreed it was a shame about Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana falling out. We agreed that the Gorton and Denton byelection had restored our faith in Britain.

Will In terms of his actual positions on minority rights, we weren’t too far apart. He was a Labour/Green split voter, like me.

For afters

Will He views polarisation in modern politics as a unique development of the last 10 years or so. I was more of the opinion that these sentiments were always there under the surface; the curtain has just been pulled back. The emergence of rightwing populist politics, Farage, the impact of social media on the political landscape – this is the natural endpoint of a development of post-cold war politics. Thirty years of American dominance, which doesn’t translate into improved living conditions, and people swing right.

Abdal-Jabbar I have some concerns about rightwing extremism. They’re hijacking woke culture and appropriating ideas of freedom of speech in order to spout racism. If that turns into violence, some of that needs curbing. He was more for woke culture, more encouraging of it.

Takeaways

Abdal-Jabbar We shook hands outside and parted amicably. He was a lovely chap. Very nice human being.

Will The whole evening was amicable – we never got to the point where we were aggressively disagreeing.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

• Abdal-Jabbar and Will ate at Maya in Manchester.

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